Curse

Killed u man · Jun 01, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

opposing party window hack could be construed as interacting with other people with the use of a third party program

Texmod Carthographer interacts with your world map. I still dont see where you're going with this?

Are you really going to argue Texmod does not give you an advantage, when clearly it does in numerous ways?

-Easy Carthographer
-HP bar markers for skills such as WoH, ZB, etc
-Highlighting of certain items/armors for PvP. (Warrior)
-Highlighting of certain skills being cast (Diversion, Shame, etc...)

There is enough unfair advantages I can think of when I think about Texmod. Though I'm not saying ppl using Texmod should be banned, that's what you are. (By claiming your no tolerance bs) Altough, in a way, it would make me, personally, feel better if Texmod users got banned aswell, because I got banned for something similar aswell. (Not in the recent botting spree)

Quote:

That's enough not to be malicious injection, that's enough not to make TexMod detectable.

Texmod is detectable, so much for your theory. Cba finding the official statement, but I think that french chick said they "ignored" the Texmod injections.

Again, Texmod doesn't manipulate the server/client communication, but it does manimulate the client/ .dat communication, which is only an extension of that client/server line.

The changes Texmod forces through go directly to your client. Texmod is no more than a client hack, just because it doesn't need any input/out from the server doesn't make any less of a hack.

And for someone claiming Texmod is "OK" to use, it find it really disturbing to see:

Quote:

You probably don't realize the gravity of this. There was really nothing to "judge": hacking is forbidden and a severe breach to the Rules of Conduct, be it once or multiple times. End of story.

comming out of the same mouth. Texmod IS a hack, wether you like it or not.

Gill Halendt · Jun 01, 2010, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiky

Second. Some of the banned botters well let's say it in ur words: they had a gun and used it but didn't kill anyone simply "practiced" and tried it out. So this is what I'm QQing about in this thread, they didn't rly judge who to ban simply if an injection has been detected = BAN. Didn't matter if the guy they banned used bot for 10 mins, 2 hours or 2000 hours nor where they used it.

That's because detection -> they have the certainty that data manipulation (a form of hack) happened.

You probably don't realize the gravity of this. There was really nothing to "judge": hacking is forbidden and a severe breach to the Rules of Conduct, be it once or multiple times. End of story.

Gill Halendt · Jun 01, 2010, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Texmod is detectable, so much for your theory. Cba finding the official statement, but I think that french chick said they "ignored" the Texmod injections.

Again, Texmod doesn't manipulate the server/client communication, but it does manimulate the client/ .dat communication, which is only an extension of that client/server line.

KSMod injection were ignored, as the ksmod.dll was injected to the executable process.

TexMod doesn't technically inject anything, it doesn't even connect to the .DAT file, it simply reads data streams coming out from your videocard data-buffer. Locally, absolutely undetectable unless they can read your data transfers, not even remotely a hack, since that data is in your video memory and ready to be used on screen. All TexMod does is to display overlay textures. Locally. That's not "injection" in my books.

SOME user-developed mods MIGHT rely on injection through other extensions to the program, but then again, it's not TexMod itself.

Does this provide advantages? Sure does. As much as playing on a 42" LCD display to see your opponent's skills better so you can disrupt him. Visual tweaks. Or using a laser, ultra-precise mouse or a multifunction keyboard.

Heck, even Ventrilo is a hack then, as voice communication can provide a relevant edge over a team not using it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The changes Texmod forces through go directly to your client. Texmod is no more than a client hack, just because it doesn't need any input/out from the server doesn't make any less of a hack.

Ok. But, whatever, they can do nothing to prevent this. It's not a hack they can detect, not one they can take action against, not something that involves disruption or interference with their client-server system to work. That's enough for TexMod not to be classified as a "hack" by any security corporation.

Killed u man · Jun 01, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

And now, you're saying that Texmod is as much of an advantage as a better mouse, or this or that.

My initial point was that some people seem to be so dead-on focused on the: "using ANY hack, even once to test, should be insta ban" to which I replied, Texmod technically is a hack.

My intital point still stands, and is only firmed up by your statements of drawning your own lines (Mouse, 42 inch screen, etc): People who used the bot only once to test it don't deserve to be perma banned.

Obviusly, there will be very few people, but there are. (Burton comes to mind) Anet is always so strict one day, and so loose the other, we as a community really have no clue where the lines lay.

Sometimes they say this, which turns out to be a complete lie, sometimes they say that which turns out only to be halve the truth. The rules in Guild Wars are so incredibly vague, you simply can't put the most severe punishment on people who crossed these vague lines only once. (Aka people trying the bot once just to see how it works, for arguements sake only so they can counter it better)

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 01, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Anet is always so strict one day, and so loose the other, we as a community really have no clue where the lines lay.

Sometimes they say this, which turns out to be a complete lie, sometimes they say that which turns out only to be halve the truth. The rules in Guild Wars are so incredibly vague, you simply can't put the most severe punishment on people who crossed these vague lines only once. (Aka people trying the bot once just to see how it works, for arguements sake only so they can counter it better)

give up and succumb to Anet's vague and random will. only then will you know the true and ultimate power of their force... Otherwise, you will be crushed by it!

snaek · Jun 01, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by firebaall

Bad choice.

A closer analogy would be if that person took that tool to a school and started shooting. The reason those people got caught, was because they loaded up the software and fired it into the game.

Connect the dots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Wrong analogy: you don't get banned for simply checking bot sites or downloading them. You get banned for USING.

So, to fix your analogy... As soon as you load the gun and shoot, killing one person, it doesn't matter wether it was one kill or ten: you're arrested for killing.

You're usually jailed for killing: Jail -> Permaban

You're basically asking to punish one time killers with a parking ticket.

reading comprehension ftl...

the analogy was for bots being banned onsite for being detected but not actually being used.

Gill Halendt · Jun 01, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

My initial point was that some people seem to be so dead-on focused on the: "using ANY hack, even once to test, should be insta ban" to which I replied, Texmod technically is a hack.

And my initial point still stands: let's assume TexMod is a hack, and a nasty one at that. It doesn't interfere IN ANY WAY with the client-server data transmission. Data manipulation is bannable not just because it sucks, it opens backdoors to cheat systems, it gives unfair advantages, or because of any other game-related thing.

Data manipulation is a VIOLATION, you're hacking the systems of a service provider to acquire data otherwise inaccessible to you, potentially exploiting any weaknesses in the system or misuse any sensible or data acquired. That's something you DO NOT with TexMod.

That's why they have account termination as a punishment.

The company I work for reports any detected unauthorized access attempt to our system to the Postal Police. A permanent ban suddendly sounds not so bad in comparison.

snaek · Jun 01, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gill halendt

Come back when TexMod plays the game automatically.

broken logic. many pvp bots don't play the game automatically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gill halendt

They interrupt automatically and do that for you. Do you really think the EULA refers to "playing the game" as "completing the campaign for you while you go to the cinema"? -_-

interrupt bot was maybe a bit of a bad example, but still it is not fully automated. but there are other pvp cheats that work function as indicators such as the ones that indicate who's being targeted on your team.

Gill Halendt · Jun 01, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

the analogy was for bots being banned onsite for being detected but not actually being used.

They can't detect a bot on your PC unless you use it.

If they can, they're hacking YOUR system and browsing your local folders. Sorry, I seriously doubt they do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

broken logic. many pvp bots, for example interrput bots, don't play the game automatically.

They interrupt automatically and do that for you. Do you really think the EULA refers to "playing the game" as "completing the campaign for you while you go to the cinema"? -_-

snaek · Jun 01, 2010, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

They can't detect a bot on your PC unless you use it.

If they can, they're hacking YOUR system and browsing your local folders. Sorry, I seriously doubt they do that.

loading it up into memory is not the same as actually executing the script.

Gill Halendt · Jun 01, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

loading it up into memory is not the same as actually executing the script.

Loading it up won't be detected. Again, they can't read local memory.

snaek · Jun 01, 2010, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Loading it up won't be detected. Again, they can't read local memory.

i may not fully understand what dll injection is, but common sense tells me that once the 'dll' is 'injected' it is detectable...

Kiky · Jun 01, 2010, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

And my initial point still stands: let's assume TexMod is a hack, and a nasty one at that. It doesn't interfere IN ANY WAY with the client-server data transmission. Data manipulation is bannable not just because it sucks, it opens backdoors to cheat systems, it gives unfair advantages, or because of any other game-related thing.

Data manipulation is a VIOLATION, you're hacking the systems of a service provider to acquire data otherwise inaccessible to you, potentially exploiting any weaknesses in the system or misuse any sensible or data acquired. That's something you DO NOT with TexMod.

That's why they have account termination as a punishment.

The company I work for reports any detected unauthorized access attempt to our system to the Postal Police. A permanent ban suddendly sounds not so bad in comparison.

U are saying that Texmod users shouldnt be banned (but also u said zero tolerance to cheaters). So it shouldnt be a bannable offense because it doesnt interfere with client-server data transmission.
That would also mean that pixel bots shouldnt be banned which type of bot the RMT-s use and are ruining the economy of GW.
If u think of the bs u just said about that Texmod should be bannable. Well let's see, think of any visual cheats for a FPS game....

Firebaall · Jun 01, 2010, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

reading comprehension ftl...

the analogy was for bots being banned onsite for being detected but not actually being used.

As the thread evolution shows after you posted this....you have no idea what your talking about. Educate yourself before "debating". Otherwise you look like a fool.

Gill Halendt · Jun 01, 2010, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiky

U are saying that Texmod users shouldnt be banned (but also u said zero tolerance to cheaters). So it shouldnt be a bannable offense because it doesnt interfere with client-server data transmission.
That would also mean that pixel bots shouldnt be banned which type of bot the RMT-s use and are ruining the economy of GW.
If u think of the bs u just said about that Texmod should be bannable. Well let's see, think of any visual cheats for a FPS game....

First: zero tollerance to cheaters? Me? Where?

Second: you came to the conclusions you liked.

Interference in the client-server interaction is data manipulation, it's a violation, it's an attempt to HACK A SYSTEM and gather sensible data you shouldn't be allowed to manipulate. That's even before you consider it a CHEAT, a cheat is a game-related problem. I could make a bot that loads the game for me, draws 100k from my bank and handles it to the closest player I meet, or even drops them in explorable and then it returns to the outpost. Is it a bot? Yes. Is it a cheat? No. Do I need to inject and manipulate data for it to work? Yes, indeed. Will I get banned for it? Most likely, even if I didn't cheat. Data hacks and manipulation are bannable offenses in pretty much every system I know.

Cheating? A whole different matter: botters weren't banned for cheating, but more for the violation to the system.

Actions against cheating require a much clearer policy against it, as lots of the cheating methods can't just be detected with a computerized detector. TexMod doesn't "hack" anything of the Guild Wars systems, hence it's not detectable, yet it can be used to "cheat" (if you like calling carto-mods like that, fine with me). If Anet came and told us TexMod wasn't acceptable because it allowed forms of cheating, I wouldn't bother, really.

If they ever decided to ban people for it, there's little I could do or say against it: it's their game, they decide the rules, the decide how and when to enforce them.

Davros Uitar · Jun 01, 2010, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Is that the tactic then. Try and get Anet to lump in textmod so that the ban counts soars and the QQ gets so large that they have to give the botters back their accounts?

Seriously? Some would have the rest of us believe that 6000 Z keys per day = the same advantage as scraping some corners?

People are having a laugh here.

Mireles · Jun 01, 2010, 10:23 PM // 22:23

These threads make me curious of to how many guru members were banned... it seems like this is that we talk about in riverside

Lord Sojar · Jun 01, 2010, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

If you wanna go down the zero tollerance road:

What about Texmod users? Despite Regina/Anet claiming it's OK, their rules still state all third party programs are bannable. Not only is it a third party program, but it also injects. Your theory states all Texmod users should be banned.

What about people using portal glitches, AI glitches, exploits (such as the recent dual modding) and others. All those people deserve to be banned in your eyes?

Whilst I agree that the exploiters who recently made money of the dual modding exploit should be banned (for both scamming as exploiting), but most of those others are so harmless.

Somebody trying the interrupt bot only once didnt deserve a perm, in my eyes.

Again, this is just another excuse. You are trying to make the case that something that doesn't effect other players in any way whatsoever is similar to something that does.

TexMod is like having a laptop in class instead of writing notes by hand. An interrupt bot/farming bot is like having a device that stops all pens and pencils from working, and controls electricity, and having a laptop to take notes. I see no relation....

Could you pro botters or people that don't believe the botters deserved a perma ban please post something that logically explains why the botters don't deserve to be banned forever after cheating using logic and not excuse after excuse? (Note: If you say that people that used a bot for 10 minutes shouldn't be perma banned but others should, who is making the distinction, and explain how that is fair to everyone who didn't cheat or even better, how it is fair to everyone who botted?)

windtalker · Jun 02, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Again, this is just another excuse. You are trying to make the case that something that doesn't effect other players in any way whatsoever is similar to something that does.

TexMod is like having a laptop in class instead of writing notes by hand. An interrupt bot/farming bot is like having a device that stops all pens and pencils from working, and controls electricity, and having a laptop to take notes. I see no relation....

Could you pro botters or people that don't believe the botters deserved a perma ban please post something that logically explains why the botters don't deserve to be banned forever after cheating using logic and not excuse after excuse? (Note: If you say that people that used a bot for 10 minutes shouldn't be perma banned but others should, who is making the distinction, and explain how that is fair to everyone who didn't cheat or even better, how it is fair to everyone who botted?)

Um, what?
Have you ever heard of the word justice? Or do you think that people speeding (comparable to drunkard botters, achieving the destination (title) with less in-game time), people stealing (scammers etc), and people killing (pvp botters etc) should all be put to death?

Regardless of the fact that Guild Wars is not the real world, people still have a concept of fairness, and when you use third party programs once, twice, or half a dozen times just to make your title-hunting a little less boring/time-consuming, and you receive the Guild Wars death sentence instead of a ticket, you think it's unfair.

Lord Sojar · Jun 02, 2010, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by windtalker

Um, what?
Have you ever heard of the word justice? Or do you think that people speeding (comparable to drunkard botters, achieving the destination (title) with less in-game time), people stealing (scammers etc), and people killing (pvp botters etc) should all be put to death?

Regardless of the fact that Guild Wars is not the real world, people still have a concept of fairness, and when you use third party programs once, twice, or half a dozen times just to make your title-hunting a little less boring/time-consuming, and you receive the Guild Wars death sentence instead of a ticket, you think it's unfair.

Botting is an especially heinous activity as outlined by the EULA/ToS. You are attempting to make real world comparisons without taking into consideration anything present in the EULA/ToS.

So people that used it once are ok? People that used it twice too? Half a dozen are ok too? What about 7x? 8? 9? Where do we draw the line for perma bans for those who chose to cheat to make it easier, and the rest of us have to actually try... I know, working to earn something is a crazy concept. Just take the easy way out, right?

ANET is simply following your example; they are taking the easy way out and having Dhuum slay your cheating asses for your heinous sins.